<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Sussmaniana</title>
	<atom:link href="http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/</link>
	<description>random thoughts on programming and programming languages</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:51:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: jao</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30971</link>
		<dc:creator>jao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30971</guid>
		<description>&quot;comment-reply@wordpress.com&quot;  writes: 

&gt;  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;comment-reply@wordpress.com&#8221;  writes: </p>
<p>&gt;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Weinreb</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30970</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Weinreb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30970</guid>
		<description>JAO, I just read this again and, if I may say so, it&#039;s top-notch. Your descriptions all hit the nail right on the head.  Thank you very much!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JAO, I just read this again and, if I may say so, it&#8217;s top-notch. Your descriptions all hit the nail right on the head.  Thank you very much!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Weinreb</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30902</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Weinreb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 02:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30902</guid>
		<description>@Mark: Gerry Sussman was quite clear that he endorses the new curriculum, as does Hal Abelson.  What he said (the &quot;we&#039;re old farts&quot; comment) was that we may not like the fact that the way engineers work has changed in this way, but it has in fact changed, and it would be a big mistake to hide our heads in the sand and pretend it hasn&#039;t, no matter what we like.

Also, please keep in mind that the change is only the freshman core courses.  The rest of the CS curriculum is the same as it has been for a long time, and it&#039;s in those classes that we all learned about operating systems and new languages.

My son&#039;s best friend&#039;s older sister is a senior in CS at MIT now, and I&#039;ve been hearing all about her experiences. It&#039;s as if she&#039;s following in my footsteps, which I find very entertaining.  Of course they&#039;re not my very own footsteps, but those of all the CS majors in the last thirty years.  Of course the details have been updated; the new reading list for 6.033 is modern and very relevant.

6.033 is probably the deepest undergraduate CS course, dealing with issues that are leading-edge and often not entirely resolved yet.  She sent me email when she was given a 6.033 paper of which I was one of the co-authors, namely our CACM paper about ObjectStore.  Wow, I myself am on the 6.033 reading list -- what an honor!  Brag, brag.  (It&#039;s nothing to do with Lisp, by the way.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark: Gerry Sussman was quite clear that he endorses the new curriculum, as does Hal Abelson.  What he said (the &#8220;we&#8217;re old farts&#8221; comment) was that we may not like the fact that the way engineers work has changed in this way, but it has in fact changed, and it would be a big mistake to hide our heads in the sand and pretend it hasn&#8217;t, no matter what we like.</p>
<p>Also, please keep in mind that the change is only the freshman core courses.  The rest of the CS curriculum is the same as it has been for a long time, and it&#8217;s in those classes that we all learned about operating systems and new languages.</p>
<p>My son&#8217;s best friend&#8217;s older sister is a senior in CS at MIT now, and I&#8217;ve been hearing all about her experiences. It&#8217;s as if she&#8217;s following in my footsteps, which I find very entertaining.  Of course they&#8217;re not my very own footsteps, but those of all the CS majors in the last thirty years.  Of course the details have been updated; the new reading list for 6.033 is modern and very relevant.</p>
<p>6.033 is probably the deepest undergraduate CS course, dealing with issues that are leading-edge and often not entirely resolved yet.  She sent me email when she was given a 6.033 paper of which I was one of the co-authors, namely our CACM paper about ObjectStore.  Wow, I myself am on the 6.033 reading list &#8212; what an honor!  Brag, brag.  (It&#8217;s nothing to do with Lisp, by the way.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Wingo: the very merry month of may</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30883</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Wingo: the very merry month of may</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 13:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30883</guid>
		<description>[...] lightning talk about visualizing the shapes of programs. Thankfully, my colleague Jao already shared his impressions, with more depth and eloquence than I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lightning talk about visualizing the shapes of programs. Thankfully, my colleague Jao already shared his impressions, with more depth and eloquence than I [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Miller</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30865</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30865</guid>
		<description>I read a few articles on Sussman&#039;s speech on why MIT switched to Python, and the sense I get is, as you said, that he understands the reasoning behind the switch, but he doesn&#039;t endorse it. What&#039;s sad to me is he takes himself out of the picture (&quot;I&#039;m just an old fart&quot;), rather than as an authority with something valuable to say about it that people should hear.

I agree with you about how your myths never measure up to reality. I had the opportunity to meet Alan Kay at the Rebooting Computing summit held in January. I expected to be all giddy to meet him. Instead I felt very humble, but gratified. When he was talking with others about CS education he said something similar to Sussman with regard to who should be given diplomas, even more so who should be allowed to teach. I forget if it was at the Summit, but I&#039;ve heard him quote Alan Turing who said that, &quot;If you&#039;re not satisfied with the computer you have, you can create one to your liking,&quot; or something like that. Kay considers it essential that every CS graduate be able to write their own programming language, because he considered this to be like creating your own computer in a virtual sense. He also said that if any CS professor can&#039;t do this they should be fired.

I understand what Sussman said about the reasons for the decision to make the switch. If I were in the CS department I&#039;d feel uncomfortable about it. The reason being that it feels like MIT is slouching towards the undergrad CS education I had from a lesser known university, which was largely about algorithm analysis and optimization. This sort of education is perfect for doing what he describes: analyzing what already exists, and then piecing the best parts together into a cohesive whole in a performant manner. The problem is it doesn&#039;t get at the lower level ideas. Who&#039;s going to create the new APIs, operating systems, and languages? Certainly not the kind of people who had the CS education I had. It seems like we&#039;re voluntarily taking ourselves out of the realm of computing innovation. &quot;That&#039;ll be done elsewhere.&quot; Gee, I hope not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a few articles on Sussman&#8217;s speech on why MIT switched to Python, and the sense I get is, as you said, that he understands the reasoning behind the switch, but he doesn&#8217;t endorse it. What&#8217;s sad to me is he takes himself out of the picture (&#8220;I&#8217;m just an old fart&#8221;), rather than as an authority with something valuable to say about it that people should hear.</p>
<p>I agree with you about how your myths never measure up to reality. I had the opportunity to meet Alan Kay at the Rebooting Computing summit held in January. I expected to be all giddy to meet him. Instead I felt very humble, but gratified. When he was talking with others about CS education he said something similar to Sussman with regard to who should be given diplomas, even more so who should be allowed to teach. I forget if it was at the Summit, but I&#8217;ve heard him quote Alan Turing who said that, &#8220;If you&#8217;re not satisfied with the computer you have, you can create one to your liking,&#8221; or something like that. Kay considers it essential that every CS graduate be able to write their own programming language, because he considered this to be like creating your own computer in a virtual sense. He also said that if any CS professor can&#8217;t do this they should be fired.</p>
<p>I understand what Sussman said about the reasons for the decision to make the switch. If I were in the CS department I&#8217;d feel uncomfortable about it. The reason being that it feels like MIT is slouching towards the undergrad CS education I had from a lesser known university, which was largely about algorithm analysis and optimization. This sort of education is perfect for doing what he describes: analyzing what already exists, and then piecing the best parts together into a cohesive whole in a performant manner. The problem is it doesn&#8217;t get at the lower level ideas. Who&#8217;s going to create the new APIs, operating systems, and languages? Certainly not the kind of people who had the CS education I had. It seems like we&#8217;re voluntarily taking ourselves out of the realm of computing innovation. &#8220;That&#8217;ll be done elsewhere.&#8221; Gee, I hope not!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: links for 2009-03-29 &#171; Blarney Fellow</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30853</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-03-29 &#171; Blarney Fellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30853</guid>
		<description>[...] Sussmaniana « programming musings (tags: bio lisp math parallelism) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sussmaniana « programming musings (tags: bio lisp math parallelism) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Improved Means For Achieving Deteriorated Ends / It&#8217;s True</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30850</link>
		<dc:creator>Improved Means For Achieving Deteriorated Ends / It&#8217;s True</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30850</guid>
		<description>[...] Ortega has posted for the first time in almost a year on that very subject. He&#8217;s gone into more depth on Sussman&#8217;s talks than anyone else I&#8217;ve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ortega has posted for the first time in almost a year on that very subject. He&#8217;s gone into more depth on Sussman&#8217;s talks than anyone else I&#8217;ve [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: redline6561</title>
		<link>http://programming-musings.org/2009/03/29/sussmaniana/#comment-30849</link>
		<dc:creator>redline6561</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 01:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://programming-musings.org/?p=179#comment-30849</guid>
		<description>Excellent to see you posting again after so long. I&#039;m glad you went into more depth on Sussman&#039;s comments as no one else has and hopefully I&#039;ll run into you at a ILC in the future. Also, you&#039;re probably aware of it but you may find the amorphous computing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_computing) and spatial computing (http://amorphous.ibisc.fr/) work interesting. Radhika Nagpal and Jacob Beal have both published interesting papers on it. There is also a good presentation here: http://web.mit.edu/jakebeal/www/Talks/spatial-computing-tutorial.pdf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent to see you posting again after so long. I&#8217;m glad you went into more depth on Sussman&#8217;s comments as no one else has and hopefully I&#8217;ll run into you at a ILC in the future. Also, you&#8217;re probably aware of it but you may find the amorphous computing (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_computing" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_computing</a>) and spatial computing (<a href="http://amorphous.ibisc.fr/" rel="nofollow">http://amorphous.ibisc.fr/</a>) work interesting. Radhika Nagpal and Jacob Beal have both published interesting papers on it. There is also a good presentation here: <a href="http://web.mit.edu/jakebeal/www/Talks/spatial-computing-tutorial.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/jakebeal/www/Talks/spatial-computing-tutorial.pdf</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
